El Centro: Audiobook Transcript

El-Centro

	[music]
Announcer:	From deep within the pine barrens of Lebanon State Forest, coming to you via 97.90 kHz short wave and via the Internet at the gardenoftruth.org. The Garden of Truth [echo] with your host Milford Connelly. [music] The Garden of Truth, bringing news from beyond hell. And now, here's our host Milford Connelly.
Milford Connelly:	Good evening, dear friends. It is my pleasure to welcome you to a very special edition of the Garden of Truth program, coming at you from deep within what I will forever call the Lebanon State Forest. I am your humble host, Milford Connelly, a kindly doctor here to heal a sick and, one may almost conclude, dying world. As I see it, we are a voice from one wilderness to another. One voice coming from deep within God's holy forest into the moral wilderness, which is the world we currently inhabit. Tonight I will be bringing you information on a phenomenon, I don't even know what exactly to call it, but that is called El Centro. It will be necessary for me to give you a bit of background on this, because it touches pretty much on everything we have covered over the last 20 years on this program. And it includes everything from what government has been hiding from you for the last 50 years, to what your grandchildren are watching on Saturday morning television. Yes, even that is a more vast and darker conspiracy than you could have imagined. Let me start off with a list: M.K. Ultra, Operation Paperclip, Operation Mockingbird, Operation Phoenix, Operation Chaos, Point O-Pro. I could fill the show merely listing the many initiatives carried out by the CIA alone. Covert operations to manipulate politics, the media and all public discourse. These projects are but a small part of the plan that has been well established by the hidden elites; and more on them as we go along here. Power over every major government, corporation, organized crime and world religion is damn near complete. That power is in the hands of fewer individuals than you could possibly imagine. For decades, agents have infiltrated every movement committed to justice and liberty and, as we shall see, they may even be in control of your mind. The subject of government mind-control experiments has been covered extensively on this program in the past. The M.K. Ultra research program has been widely discussed and the veracity of reports about this project has been firmly established. Earlier experiments carried out under Project Chatter, Project Bluebird, and Project Artichoke, were concentrated on brainwashing, using age-old methods that were combined with modern psychological studies of the subconscious and newly developed chemicals and subliminal programming. Untold numbers of people were unwittingly dosed with LSD, subjected to electro-convulsive treatments, hypnosis, direct brainwashing techniques, seemingly derived directly from the Malay's Malificadum, cut a swathe across American society, exacting a price we may never be able to calculate. Now, how does this tie in with tonight's topic? Now, as I mentioned ever so slightly, many of these government programs implant ideas and dis-information in major media. Undercover agents will be planted in organizations in order to either stop them or discredit them or simply lead these movements astray, so they can be used for other unintended nefarious purposes. El Centro, while presented as a strange work of fiction, possibly an alternate reality game -- a phenomenon which, the closer I look at it, becomes more and more terrifying in the implications of what can be done with overt alternate reality games, and has me wondering how much of what we accept as the legitimate business of society, culture, our beliefs, and our government, is in fact an elaborate game that is being played out over the course of years, decades, centuries, across continents, and possibly into parallel worlds. Let's look at El Centro for a moment. El Centro was what? A secret government program continuing the work of those secret operations I just mentioned. Was it a hoax? Are most of us carrying an imprint in our minds that can activate in us planted missions that we do not remember later? Think Manchurian Candidate, but on a grand scale. And is there reality to the claim that this reprogramming of the brain has several layers, including the so-called Omega Response, a program that, if activated, acts as a self-destruct button? Later in the program, I will go into recent events, that have been covered superficially in the press, that may be an example of the Omega Response, may be an alternate reality game or may be neither. I am not sure which possibility is more disturbing. One may almost wonder if untold numbers, of incredible stories of conspiracies and the like are planted even in our enlightened realm amongst such esteemed and intelligent people as you, my dear listeners, may not be a scheme to drive those of us who would seek out the truth, crazy, in a similar way as the protagonist of the classic movie "Gaslight." Now, before we even begin, the story gets weirder. A lot weirder. My intrepid researchers have found the tale of El Centro to be inextricably tied to one Joseph Matheny, a character many of my loyal listeners may remember from a show we did a little while back on the subject of the mystery surrounding the town of "Ong's Hat," a mystery that is connected through extensive evidence, known as the Incunabula Papers, to a great many secret government projects through the scientists who were residing at the ashram that flourished for a while in "Ong's Hat." There are threads leading from one seemingly unconnected tale to a myriad of others, which taken together bring a terrifying picture into focus. One of the stated goals of "El Centro" was to set up a multi-leveled puzzle scenario that would serve as a survival of the fittest course, so that they could find candidates that had the unique quality that they desired in puppet masters. Are they recruiting for games? Are they looking for fiction writers? Or are they working directly with the CIA and the government, to find fresh young recruits? While billing itself as a living novel on its web site, "El Centro" shows itself to be much more sinister upon closer inspection. The creators of the site are deliberately vague about everything from the details of the story, who's taking part in this endeavor, and even whether this is fact or fiction. One can feel the unholy presence of two nefarious phenomena. There's no doubt in my mind that we have a rabbit hole into an ARG, or Alternate Reality Game, supposedly fictitious stories told in deceptive and immersive ways. I also think we will be able to trace this ARG, and perhaps the whole phenomenon of ARGs, back through everything we know as media manipulation, government population, and mind-control, through cult conspiracies, on through to the reptilian masters, who shall make chattel of us all if they're not stopped. Now the story of "El Centro," as we have it thus far, hints of CIA-initiated, top secret programs of psychic spies and the defense intelligence agencies to train remote viewers. And that is just the beginning. The tale they weave here pulls us from the post World War II era phenomena, that in retrospect, seem like they are too synchronized to be coincidence. Many tales including UFO abductions might well be a continuation of clandestine mind-control operations, including hypnosis, drugs, psychological conditioning, microwaves, brain implants, and technologies that are even more disturbing. I see substantial evidence in this material to link the people involved to this country's intelligence community, including the CIA, the Defense Advance Research Projects Agency, and the Office of Naval Intelligence, and their esoteric technology of mind control. That these programs existed is an established fact. Furthermore, I see a link to some more recent information that we've been discussing. I see a link directly from "El Centro" through government programs to a theory, I'm sure we're all familiar with by now. The theory that proposes that the ruling elites of this earth are in fact from a reptilian race that have come to us from another dimension. The idea of reptilians is nothing new, as it goes all the way back through time to the post era of Noah's flood. Reptilians have always been with us, but the shocking truth about these reptilian overloads have just recently come to light, thanks to the work of a few brave souls. Now I had resisted this idea for a long time, and until recently, had suspected that the reptilian agenda was a myth planted in the underground channels of truth, to throw us off the scent of real conspiracies, and to make us all look ridiculous. Now let it not be said that I ever accept or dismiss any theory without looking into every aspect of the matter, every bit of evidence, and follow up any clue. I have found that this theory ties together all other conspiracies that have lain scattered and tangled like so much raw wool thus far. Revelations of the reptilian agenda have put these disparate threads all in order, in such a way that through the prism of this one last piece of truth -- a piece of truth embedded in an obvious Satanic plan, this document, this phenomenon we call "El Centro" -- those who have understanding can see the truth that lies beneath even admitted hoaxes. I think this material I am going to present tonight will help clarify what I mean. With this program and following programs, I shall show that all tales of alien abduction, Satanic ritual abuse, Illuminati conspiracies, the machinations of the New World Order, and even scattered myths about the Moth Man, the Yeti, and a vast range of paranormal phenomenon, can be attributed to the workings of these reptilians from, as H.P. Lovecraft put it, the hidden space. Let it not be misunderstood. One major lie that has been perpetrated is that the reptilians and grays of UFO lore are from outer space, from our universe. But they are in fact from inter-dimensional areas between this and other universes, and most of them are trapped there. They control us from the fourth dimension, and not outer space. Outer space mythos is propounded all over popular culture so as to make it difficult for most of us to think outside the given paradigm. Now it has seemed to me lately that all roads, when you are on the trail of paranormal and para-political phenomena, lead back to this one man more often than could possibly be a coincidence. The last time we spoke to Mr. Matheny, the interview ended rather abruptly. He was obstinate in avoiding many of the subjects I wished to bring up, and at the conclusion said that that would be his last. And who knows where this show may end up. It was pointed out to me the other day that Mr. Matheny somehow got a recording of our last show that touched on a subject with which he was very much involved, the program where we covered topic of the Incunabula papers and the strange goings on in "Ong's Hat." Apparently that particular broadcast of the Garden of Truth program was swiped and posted on the Internet, and it was claimed that this program was the 20th anniversary audio book version of "Ong's Hat: The Beginning." It was while researching various topics, and strangely Scientology government mind control projects and the like, that I came across some references on the Internet to "El Centro, " and its connection to all these nefarious conspiracies. I contacted Matheny's people, and surprisingly, he agreed to a follow-up interview. But before we speak with Mr. Matheny, I will read to you material we have been able to gather on "El Centro" itself. [music] I will now read some excerpts from "El Centro," that I went and got off of archive.org, because the El Centro site stopped being updated in 2004. Gill came to sitting at a dirty, crumb-infested table in a doughnut shop somewhere in the Southern California desert. He shook his head in a vain attempt to clear the cobwebs. Somewhere in his mind, drifting up from a black bottomless void, a metallic voice calmly said, "The warm, woolly cotton brain of infancy." "What?" he said out loud. "What?" the woman working the counter snapped. "Nothing," Gill mumbled back. He glanced suspiciously at a soda machine that sat buzzing in the corner. "I have to figure out where I am, and how I got here," he thought to himself. He looked around the doughnut shop at the dingy, sparse atmosphere. Fluorescent lights hummed overhead in a 60-cycle symphony, like something composed by Stockhausen after the helicopters had run out of fuel. The shop, although, locally owned, looked like it could presently be, or have once been, a franchise establishment. It had that spartan, stamped-out look like it was a replicant in the long line of generic family-owned shops scattered across the country. For a moment, Gill had a flash of a factory somewhere that made modular doughnut shops beneath a gigantic sign that read "Generic, One-Size-Fits-All, Family-Owned Doughnut Shops for the Americas." This flash was accompanied by snatches of sales and marketing people milling about in loud, Chinese suits, gibbering inane bumper sticker-isms while strange machinery made cartoon-like sounds of boinging and bonking as it churned out the pre-fab shop pieces. He shook his head again in an attempt to clear up, and a single word spontaneously formed in the fore of his mind. "Jump." Immediately after the word formed, his subconscious found a link dredged up the Pointer Sister's song, "Jump, " and began playing the chords in his head in a constant loop. For a moment he disassociated from the theater of his head, and heard his central ego voice say "Wonder why I didn't associate something else, like Van Halen's 'Jump' instead." Shaking his head at such a silly thought, he again attempted to focus his being, and escape this oceanic free association mode he seemed to be awash in. He swiveled sideways to the table in a bright orange, molded plastic chair that was attached by a pole to the bottom of the table, which in turn was anchored to the brown tile floor. The floor was specked with small bits of paper from straw covers and flecks of pastry. He took a slow, even breath. An Ink Spots song emerged from a tinny speaker overhead in a low crackle. His vision was blurry, and he narrowed his eyelids in an attempt to take stock of what was right here and right now. Lying in front of him on the grungy table, he recognized a dog-eared copy of a book that he had picked up two weeks before at a hostel on State Street in Santa Barbara. He vaguely remembered the act of reading some of it, but could not remember what the book was about. A bookmark made from a folded Del Taco napkin marking a place halfway through the thick tome, told him he probably should remember. He tried to focus on the title, but couldn't make his mucus-coated eyes behave. He saw a grey and semi-transparent bacteria strand to a lazy swim across his right eyeball. "El Centro," the voice piped in again. He saw some weird graffiti carved into the table beneath the book, the bumpy scratched edges protruding from beneath either side. He didn't bother to move the book to read the graffiti. He was too weary, too full of ennui to muster up the energy to perform even so simple a task. "El Centro. That's what the truck driver who dropped me off here said that this place was called," he suddenly remembered. It began to come back to him in snatches. Climbing out of an 18-wheeler at a highway off-ramp. The walk from the off-ramp to the doughnut shop. The yellow sign atop a tall pole acting as a beacon. Then upon approaching the door, narrowly escaping a collision with two men who were leaving the shop at post-haste. He remembered catching a whiff of sulfur as they passed him. He waved it off as a synesthesia effect. He remembered nearly being run over by one of them, again a small peculiar-looking little man, who had suddenly rushed back to recover some forgotten leftovers. Walking, as if in a trance, Gill had shuffled to a table and dropped himself into one of the swivel seats, like a bag of hammers, in an attempt to regain some equilibrium and focus. He had been sitting there how long? Minutes? Hours? Days? He doubted it was hours or days by the looks of the counter girl, an attractive but resolute-looking young woman of undetermined Asian descent, possibly with a dash of Mexican thrown in. He was fairly certain that he would have received the Bum's Rush if he had been sitting there more than a few minutes. He suddenly noticed that he reeked slightly of stale body odor. He didn't have a map, so he was uncertain of his exact location, other than that he was somewhere in California. He only knew that because he vaguely remembered having heard of "El Centro" in some other time or place. He wasn't even certain of why he had been dropped off here. Had he requested it? From the looks of the terrain through the grey-smudged windows, he was somewhere in the desert. So, it was almost certainly Southern California; maybe near the Mexican border. "El Centro" - he heard the howl-like voice in his head repeat in his mind. And his mind pulled up two more relative links from his sub-conscious. 'Middle pillar' and 'middle of nowhere' floated up to the surface and bobbed there for a moment in his conscious mind, like a fish flashing to the surface of a pond, turning and diving back down, both thoughts were gone in an instant. "El Centro," the howl-like voice said again. Like the automated announcement voice on a commuter train as it reaches a stop. 'Maybe if I get some food in me, my blood-sugar levels will stabilize; I'll be able to think straight,' he mused internally. No sooner had this thought crossed his mind, than the counter girl barked at him in a shrill, half-accented voice, 'You going to order some doughnuts, or are you just going to sit there!' "What happens if I say, 'Just sit here?'" he croaked, not bothering to look at her. 'I have to throw you out!' she said matter-of-factly; then softening a bit, she asked with a semi-concerned voice, 'OK?' 'OK?' he asked, wondering if she were more concerned with his well-being, or the fact that he may keel over on her shift, and cause her undue headaches. 'Yeah, I'm OK. Could I have... Something in some substance? Something that'll stick to my ribs?' 'You want a ham-and-cheese croissant?' she asked, going back to her official drone-voice. 'Yeah, ham and cheese - coffee!' his voice getting clearer with every effort to speak. 'It's a special price if you get the ham-and-cheese and coffee together!' she chirped with a voice that approached something akin to gaiety. 'What's it called?' he asked, surprising himself at his level of interest in this banal conversation, and in its grounding effect. It was helping him reel in some focus; plugging him in to mundane reality again. 'It's a breakfast special, ' she continued, while placing the white paper mat on a bright red plastic tray straight from the Modula Family shop factory. 'It's called Jump - like a jump-start, or a jump out of bed!' He started at the word being spoken so close to having heard it in his inner-narrative. The synchronicity factor was still fairly thick, and that creepy paranoid feeling that comes with it began its creepy crawl around the edges of his consciousness. 'Jump, ' he repeated flatly. 'Yeah. Gimme a Jump!' He pulled a crumpled $20 bill from the right front pocket of his jeans, and carefully smoothed it out on the counter. As he stood obediently, waiting for his Jump Special, he thought back to a conversation that he had with his therapist in New York, Dr. Seger. They were in Dr. Seger's office in New York, on the Upper East Side; the office was decorated with a heavy Victorian-era flavor, as if the interior decorator had been Richard Burton himself. The great white hunter effect was completed by a gazelle-head, and antique blunderbusses hanging on the dark mahogany walls. African charms, masks and other voodoon trinkets were scattered about, almost laissez-faire in their placement. A mighty oak bookcase lined the length of the longest wall, and it was filled with handsome, leather-bound editions of rare books in many languages - most having to do with metaphysics or esoteric religious subjects. Opposite this bookcase was a picture window with a decent view of the city - a leather couch, which creaked in mournful protest when a patient wiggled, sat lengthwise against the window. At the head of the couch sat a red-brocaded armchair, with a matching ottoman. It is here that Dr. Seger sat as he listened to his patients, and took occasional notes. He had placed it in such a way so that he could looked out the window at the skies, as he listened to the tales that came pouring from the inhabitants of the couch. The room swam in the comforting aromas of leather and wood-polish, intermingled. It was in this same chair that Dr. Seger sat on this particular day in Gil's memory, and listened to the story of The Voice. 'When did you first begin to hear the voice?' Dr. Seger asked while twirling a pencil around his fingers - like a heavy-metal drummer doing the flourish between beats. 'It all came to me one day in a library, ' Gill said from the couch. He moved slightly and the leather made a creaking sound like a saddle. 'It whispered in my ear - no, that's not right. Not exactly my ear, but in my eardrum; like from behind it. Kind of tickled. Know what I'm saying?' 'Hm-mmm. Mm-hmm' was Dr. Seger's reply. He looked out the window at some distant point in the cloud-less sky. 'Go on, ' he said, as if to the space-at-large. 'The tone was warm in the sound-tech sense of the word; mechanical but warm... Rich is what I'm trying to say, I guess. It had a melodic, tonal quality. Like it had a slight, so slight, stereo-chorus effect on it.' He continued somewhat uncertain. 'I didn't know you were in to sound engineering!' Dr. Seger said, sounding only slightly surprised. 'Nah, ' Gil replied, 'but I've been around a lot of studios when I was hanging out with bands and even in a few...' He paused for a moment. "Anyway, the voice said, 'ontogeny re-capitulates phylogeny.' I kind of jerked my head because it tickled my inner ear; then I had this feeling that the phrase had all these other meanings attached to it. Like it carried multiple layers of information on top. It said so much more than simple words could. Like an echo. Is any of this making sense?" he asked the doctor in a pleading tone. 'Yes. The ancient Hebrews, Babylonians, Sumerians, others - many cultures have ascribed multi-dimensionality to words and their meanings. Even down to the letters in some cases, but we won't go into all of that now. Is there more to the story?' he asked, tapping his pipe into an expensive-looking ashtray that had an ornate-looking knob in the center for this very act. 'Well... then the words Relative Database came to mind, and I thought about it. But I had just experience with the multi-dimensionality, of the words. Is that - is that what you call it?' He looked to Dr. Seger for confirmation and received it in the form of a nod. So he went on. 'Relative Databases, which I knew from working with Dr. Abrams. How data sets link to other data sets, and ad infinitum. He paused again as he tried to reel his mind back in from the enormous complexity of it all. Taking a breath, he started again. "Ender's Net." I read about that in a reference book on comparative religion in the library. In the margins someone had scrawled a note in pen that said, 'Sometimes you stare into the abyss, and other times it stares back at you. Experience it. Don't just read about it.' And I swear, the hairs on the back of my neck stood up, and I got a cold, prickly sensation. "OK, back to the voice." He fidgeted on the couch again, clearly agitated by the re-telling of the story. Dr. Seger made a note in his pad without looking up. Now the gears of my mind were making all kinds of connections, like a spider web, but huge. I began to contemplate, a better term would be to see, how we carry a complete recapitulation of the planet's memory, our own racial, genetic, and species-oriented memories. Maybe what Jung was getting at with the collective unconscious, but bigger. He trailed off, lost in the enormity of the concepts again. He noticed that his t-shirt was beginning to stick damply to his shoulder blades. "Yes, " Dr. Seger said firmly. "So this turned into a kind of epiphany, " he said as a statement of fact, rather than posing it as a question. "Yeah. But then I heard the voice again," Gill replied. "Only this time it was cold and metallic, not warm and melodic, and it said, "Idiot. Don't state the obvious. Extrapolate." Gill sighed. And then was gone for a while. "Has it been back since?" Dr. Seger asked, raising his eyebrows and staring straight at Gill. "Yes, " Gill said in a hushed tone. "But something new's been added to the equation. Now when I won't listen to it, do what it says, I get faded." "Faded?" Dr. Seger asked, puzzled. "Faded," Gill continued, in a hushed tone, "like a TV picture when someone turns the contrast knob slowly to the darkest setting. Faded. I go out, and hours later I come to with no idea where I've been or what I've done. Or I've even been anywhere or done anything at all, but most times I find out that I've been somewhere, because I have things in my pockets or people I don't even know. call me, say that I gave them my phone number." He sighed deeply. "It all seems to be connected to... Geez." He stopped, looking frustrated and anxious. "What?" Dr. Segar prodded gently. "You can tell me." "It all has to do with... I know this sounds crazy, but..." Gill took a deep breath for the plunge that he was about to take. "Fallen angels." Dr. Segar sat still for a moment. "Does the word Nepholin mean anything to you, Gill?" he finally asked after a pregnant pause. "No." "I'm going to give you a book, and I want you to read it. Then come back here, and we'll talk about this some more." "A book?" Gill asked. "Yes. Julian James, 'The Origin of Consciousness and the Breakdown of the Bi-Cameral Mind.' Read it and then come back next week, and we'll talk about this some more. I think this book can give some basis of understanding for what may be happening to you, " Dr. Seger said solemnly, reaching for a white-covered book on the desk behind his chair. What a coincidence that he already had it on his desk, Gill thought, as he took the book from the therapist. "I said here's your jump!" The counter girl was almost yelling. "Eh?" Gill's head jerked up from his reverie. "Sorry, I spaced out. Guess I'm stupid from hunger." A $20 bill was still lying on the counter where he had smoothed it out a few minutes before. The counter girl looked down at the twenty, and then back at Gill's haggard face. "Tell you what," she said in a firm voice. "This one's on me." "Thanks," he said, with genuine elements of surprise and gratitude in his voice. He reached down and picked up the twenty, crumpled it in his fist, and wadded it back into his front pocket. [music] Part two - The Authors. Originally, this was intended to be a full-length interview with the notorious authors of a new work in progress called "El Centro and Omega." On a tip I contracted a gaming company that was said to be secretly hosting the living novel, as it was called, and was told that they were only a partner in the venture, and that the controlling partner was in fact a book publishing company. They gave me the number of the publishing company, who I then contacted, and was told that they were in fact only a minor partner, and that the authors themselves held the controlling share of the interest. The publishing company gave me a number for a central office that the authors used for messages. I called and spoke to an administrative assistant. I was told that I would be granted an interview, but that I had to go on location, where the authors were working on the opening segments of "El Centro," in the town of El Centro, California, itself. When I arrived in El Centro, I was contacted by a personal assistant for the authors who was on location with them. She scheduled a meeting for me the next day with one of the authors to be held in a doughnut shop near the freeway. I arrived to find the author, who refused to give his name, waiting impatiently for me at one of the tables in the shop. I noticed that he glanced at his watch often as he spoke. Me: "OK, I guess the best way to start this is to ask you, what's your name?" Him: "Refer to me in the interview as "Him." Refer to yourself as "Me." That's the only way I'll do this is if you agree to that." Me: "How do you know that I'll stick to my part of the bargain? I could walk out of here and write whatever I want, however I want to." Him: "Yes, you could. I could also walk out of here, and then come find you, when and if you decide to break our agreement. I could then practice some of the techniques outlined in my 80s era CIA torture manual that I picked up in Central America." Me: "Somehow I don't think you're kidding." Him: "Must be because I'm not." Me: "Um, OK. Him and Me it is. Will the book be attributed to Him then?" Him: "No, it will be attributed to Them." Me: "This is weird. Could I ask you any other questions?" Him: "That depends. If you're capable, I'd say yes. Now, if what you're actually asking me is if I'll answer them, that's another matter altogether." Me: "Will you?" Him: "That depends." Me: "Let me begin by asking you this then. What is El Centro?" Him: <silent>. Me: "Did I say something wrong." Him: "No, I'm just gauging whether or not you really want to know that." Me: "That's why I'm here. To get the inside story on what this is all about." Him: "Are you sure you really want to know?" Me: "Yes, that's why I drove all this way." Him: "OK. Ever heard of mind control programming?" Me: "MK-ULTRA, Monarch, etc." Him: "To name but a few, but yes, exactly. Ever wonder how many of those mind control morons there are running amok out there?" Me: "Not exactly." Him: "I'll tell you how many. A lot. A whole fucking lot. That's how many. A bloody majority." Me: "How does that tie in?" Him: "I'll tell you, but you won't want to hear it. There are varying layers of programming. I've managed to hack a few of those over the last several years. Of specific interest to me was the omega layer. This is the fail-safe layer. The self destruct button, if you will. Recently I've learned how to trigger it." Me: "I see." Him: "Do you? I've grown tired of trying to figure out a way to deprogram large groups of people. There are too many of them out there, and more are created everyday. It's like being in a ground war with the Republic of China. You deprogram one, and they throw 20 or 30 more at you. They wear you down through attrition. So I've come up with a more elegant solution. I've discovered a method to trigger the omega response en masse. They'll off themselves. Every single agent, sleeper or inactive that comes into contact with El Centro will have their omega response triggered. Oh sure, we'll see a period of mass extinction that will be unprecedented." Me: "You mean, genocide. You can't be serious about this." Him: "As a heart attack, and no, it's not genocide. These clipuths aren't humans. They're golems, errand boys sent by grocery clerks to collect a bill." Me: "That would explain the omega in the title, but what about El Centro? Why El Centro?" Him: "That's not important." Me: "I just want to understand." Him: "I said it's not important. Next question." Me: "Come on." Him: "That's it. Why does it bother you so much? Afraid you'll be one of them?" He smiled ever so slightly as he said this. "If you're uncertain and you want to find out, you could always take part in El Centro. That's one sure-fire way to find out. Look at it this way. If you make it through the game, you're in the clear." Me: "No, I -- that is to say, wait. Why are you telling me this? How is it done? How many people will this affect?" Him: "I'm telling you this so that you or anyone else can't say that I didn't give you a fair warning. "I won't tell you how it's done. How stupid do you think I am? If I tell you how it's done, an inoculation novel will be written and mass distributed in a matter of days. All of a sudden, something like "Left Behind" shows up on the New York Times Bestseller list, making all the lemmings buy it because they think all the other lemmings bought it. Then it shows up a week later as a movie of the week, or a mini-series on network TV and Nielson gives it a monster share. then all the lemmings watch it because they think all the other lemmings are watching it. "So you see, giving away my method would result in a hasty de-poisoning of the well. I won't have it. As for the collateral damage count, I'd say about two percent of the human population will actually be left." Me: "I,.. Phew. I don't know what to ask next." Him: "Nothing. This interview has officially ended." He then got up and walked out the door, left me sitting there, thinking. Needless to say, I turned this piece into a magazine, but my editor rejected it. I'm not sure if that puts me in violation of the agreement between Him and Me. I'm hoping that it's a technical loop-hole, or that he never wanted it to be published in the first place. I'm pretty sure that I won't be taking part in El Centro. OK, I admit it. I still wasn't ready to give up on this whole El Centro thing. Something about my interview with Him nagged at my mind and refused to go away, like the bad taste left from the first swallow of a sour glass of milk. You know, when you gulp it down, before you realize it was spoiled. And then there was the matter of Them. When the author's administrative assistant called me and offered me a chance to meet the other half of Them, I couldn't say no. And so, I found myself back in El Centro sitting in the same doughnut shop off the freeway. Only this time, I was the one waiting when He arrived. I was pretty certain He was the right person when I saw him walk in, but he dissolved any remaining doubt I might've had by moving immediately towards me with the certainty of an old friend. Before I could even start to rise to attempt a courteous greeting, he dropped himself down in the seat across from me, with a weight and force belying his average frame. He looked tired but alert. Me: "Hi, I'm... " He: "<interrupting> Lucky you've been given another chance. A pause, as if he awaited a response I didn't offer. He: "<continuing> We haven't much time. You never know when an errant microwave burst might trigger something in the microtubules of the walking dead among us." I glanced around nervously. Me - "If the what?" He - "It doesn't matter. Listen, we agreed to talk to you in the first place for a very specific reason. You didn't carry out your part of the bargain. You were to be our errand boy, but not to collect on a bill, no. Your message was to be more of an invoice, a fair warning of a debt yet to be paid. But it's gone undelivered, and now we have a problem." Me - "It's not my fault. I didn't get enough from him the first time to make a story that my editor wanted to publish." He - "Check your notes, Jimmy Olsen. You got the story of a lifetime. Do you want it to write itself?" He glanced at his watch and frowned. He - "Now, since you've come so far again, I'm going to let you ask me one question, anything you'd like. I'm hoping that in the time between the first meeting and now, something resembling an insightful question may have gestated in your mind. After all, my friend fucked with it pretty good." Not liking the visual he just painted for me, I stumbled for the words that might open an avenue of understanding into the heart of El Centro. I had nothing, and vocalized the only thing I could. Me - "Why are you doing this?" He laughed, more to himself than at or with me. He - "I have to. Don't have any choice. The path I've walked has led me here. Was it chance? Fate? The sum total of choices I've made? Does it matter? Go write your story. There's a tale that needs to be told, and you've been chosen to help tell it." Ack! He got up and turned to go without another word. I sat thinking, lost, until the intruding buzz of the doughnut shop's microwave brought me back. "Hmm... Micro-tubules," I thought to myself, glancing nervously around as I got up to go. [music] And now on the show, I have the very anti-Christ himself on the line. Some of you may remember the interview we had with this gentleman a little while ago. I'm speaking of course about the dean of deception, that evil overlord of mind control... That would be Joseph Matheny, and welcome to the show, Mr. Matheny.
Joseph Matheny:	Milford Connelly, so good to hear from you.
Milford:	Joseph...
Joseph:	You know, it really is good to hear from you. It's interesting, though I was noticing the other day, I was listening to an edition of the Dreamland podcast, and I thought to myself, "God, Whitley Strieber and Milford Connelly certainly sound a lot alike, you know? It's like, you both have that Baptist minister intonation thing going on. [laughs] It's pretty cool.
Milford:	Well I assure you that I have recently come to see through the entire UFO conspiracy, and I have traced it right back to the vast Satanist conspiracy which has been with us for thousands of years, and the whole thing with the grays is just a cover-up.
Joseph:	Hmm. Yeah, OK, so they're the Nepholim, or something like that, right? I've heard all this before, yeah.
Milford:	Yes, indeed.
Joseph:	So, you called me? What do you want?
Milford:	Yes, I was actually surprised you would come back on the show. I contacted your people and I was surprised that they just came right back, and you agreed with it. Well, I have recently been made aware of this thing called El Centro. I don't know if you listened in on the introduction I made for this program, and I see many nefarious links from this project, whatever it is, to just about every subject we cover here. Except poltergeists. I haven't found a link to that yet.
Joseph:	Well, you know,.. [sighs] El Centro, it's interesting. This thing has been almost dead and buried for like four years, and yet it keeps getting dug up. OK, so just to frame it up, El Centro was something that, after doing Ong's Hat, and finishing that project up, was involved in some ARG things, and then I wanted to kind of move on to the next level of whatever ARG was pointing to. Because I noticed that what was happening with ARG's is they were starting to become kind of commercial and used for launching movies and video games, and... You know, I'm not entirely opposed to commerce and those kind of things, but it wasn't what I wanted to do with it. So I was still looking for kind of the end product of why I'd been doing this kind of things to begin with, and so I decided that I would do something that was sort of ARG-like, not really an ARG, and I made sure that when Dave and I did this, we made really sure that people at ARGN kind of let everybody know, sideways, without just coming out and saying that this is an experiment in fiction that looks like an ARG, but it's not really an ARG. I basically did that because I didn't want hardcore players from places like Unfiction and Collective Detective to come on board thinking that this was a full-scale ARG, but rather that this was kind of a concentric circle novel. If you go to Archive.org, which I heard in your broadcast that you did, then you see that the...
Milford:	That is where I found it, yes.
Joseph:	Yeah, yeah. So that's the only place it's been since December of 2004, or something like that. The only thing that's been up since then is when it concluded, when the event concluded was, I think I put up a copy of "The Pulse" that talked about it. But it hasn't been up, except on Archive.org, some of the outer chapters are there, and some of the inner chapters are not there because they were PDF and jpg with a steno in it and a couple other things. So you can't really -- you know, if you're looking at the stuff that's there now on Archive.org, you're looking at kind of the opening chapters, but the stuff that that led to is no longer online, and it wasn't archived by archive.org. For several reasons. I mean, some of it was under password protection, that you had to figure out what the user name and password was. Some of it, like I said, was steno'd inside of images and some of it was embedded in PDFs and rollover states and things like that. But really, El Centro was a novel that was written with the architecture of a Trithemius Wheel.
Milford:	Trithemius wheel?
Joseph:	Yeah, so, I'll call that Exhibit A. We'll get back to why I'm calling it that, but Exhibit A is a "Trithemius wheel, " and basically it's a series of interlocking concentric circles that were used for cryptography. It was a decryption wheel, so that you could send and receive secret messages. Pretty old stuff, you can look up Trithemius, probably go to Wikipedia. I would guess there'd be Trithemius. So the novel that I wrote was basically constructed in a way that the outer chapters led you to the next concentric circle, which you had to configure the outer chapters, or figure out what was in the outer chapters that would lead you to the next level of chapters. And then the same with that level of chapters. There were five concentric rings leading -- a total of nine concentric rings, actually, so most of what people have seen of "El Centro" are just the outside of the book. If you're making any judgment of what "El Centro" was in total, based on what you can find on Archive.org, you are almost literally judging a book by its cover. And we wouldn't want that.
Milford:	I... Well, this kind of ties in with something I read in a book about ARGs. I've been trying to educate myself on the matter ever since we spoke the last time. Now there was a statement in this book that "El Centro" was used to recruit puppet masters for future games. Is that true?
Joseph:	Yeah, absolutely true. Because it was a nine concentric ring, and it was pretty difficult to get all the way to the center. There weren't very many people, out of the thousands of people that interacted, I don't want to say played, but interacted with the work, a few filtered to the very, very, very center. Not very many. And in doing so, I decided that these would be people that would be good to use as puppet masters for some stuff we were doing in '05. Because if you read -- what you're referring to, actually, is a chapter out of "This is Not a Game" that my friend Dave Szulborski published. If you look in the front, that I actually contributed to, and I also did some editing and collation of, and helped with the marketing. If you read that closely, it says that we were recruiting puppet masters to use for ARGs later that year, and that would've been '04. We actually ended up using them in '05. In fact, one or two of those people ended up working on "Chasing a Wish 2." So yeah, it's a true statement. We recruited some puppet masters for some games that we were going to run. But it's 2007 going on '08 now, so those games are, like, over. So that was a long time ago, actually, in Internet years.
Milford:	Indeed. Now I must say, this method, the way you went about this, reminds me of a couple of things, like secret service recruitment and the way the Illuminati finds the people to carry out their evil plans. Did you take any lessons from there?
Joseph:	I would disagree with you, except that I don't even know what the Illuminati really is, other than a name of an organization that was formed by formed by Adam Weishaupt and run out of the country by the Germany government. Beyond that, I don't know that it ever existed. I know there's a lot of people that throw the name around these days. I like to play with the name, with a lot of other things, because I consider that to be a very crucial element to modern American mythology, is conspiracy theory. Basically, all the stuff you would hear on Art Bell are kind of the things in the past that I like to play with as themes for fiction, because I do consider that and comic books to be the only two real American mythology that's floating around these days.
Milford:	Now, let's get back to "El Centro." Is this another hoax, which I've noticed you are known for.
Joseph:	Yeah, OK. what am I going to say about that? I did one ARG that was called "Ong's Hat, " and then after that I haven't done any more. I kind of retired after that. A lot of people actually hurl the accusation that I never actually owned up to the fact that "Ong's Hat" was an ARG, but actually we'll call this Exhibit B. There's at least six places, if not more, where I have actually publicly, in the press and in some instances very well known mainstream media sources, I've outed myself on that. That's not an accusation I'm even going to entertain any more.
Milford:	And where will these exhibits be?
Joseph:	We'll get to that later.
Milford:	OK.
Joseph:	I mean, basically there was an ARG. It wasn't even an ARG, it was a video game that had a lot of ARG elements that preceded all these that -- well, it didn't precede all of this, it didn't precede "Ong's Hat, " but it came... I think around 2000, Electronic Arts tried to do something called "Majestic." It was going OK, it wasn't going as good as they thought it would, but it was definitely an experiment in trying immersive fiction and what I like to call collaborative fiction. But then 9/11 happened, and, you know, they kind of shut the game down because it did have a lot of story elements that were coming right about that time that had to do with terrorism and buildings being bombed. Nothing about planes flying into buildings, but they thought it wouldn't be in good taste to continue the game at that point in history. They were probably right. I mean, there was a lot of hysteria going around in those days, if you remember.
Milford:	And certainly a police state in the making, which I always felt that being a libertarian, that even though I may find some things repugnant and choose to ignore parts of the culture, I still feel that it is better to see it above ground, in the light of day, where people armed with the good word can see it for what it is. And it's not hidden.
Joseph:	Yeah. Well, you know, the one thing that came out of "Majestic" I heard was that, "Above Top Secret, " which is a web site, I think it's basically a forum that deals with all things paranormal and conspiracy, got started off of that somehow. I don't really know the story, I don't know those guys, but there's been some accusations flung around in the conspiracy circles, I know, that ATS is some sort of government-sponsored program. I don't know, you know? I doubt it, to be honest with you, but I don't know. I don't know anything about them. I do know that the "Majestic" people were very nice. They had plans to include some of the "Ong's Hat" material in the story down the line. You know that eventually it led to me meeting some very cool people who were in the ARG gaming. In fact, some of the people that were very key and crucial to what became known as ARG, very soon thereafter. So, you know, I don't see it as a bad experience. It just was an unfortunate place in history for it to be attempted, but I think that it was a noble effort on the part of EA to try to do something less about running around and shooting people, and more about kind of living within a literary experience. So from that perspective... I mean, look at it from that perspective. If you look at all these kids that grow up with these bang-bang-bang-bang, shoot-shoot-shoot-shoot games, and I know that worries a lot of people. Something like "Majestic" was actually an attempt to not do something like that, but rather them do something more cerebral, more intellectual.
Milford:	Sure. Not having seen the game, I can't say much about that. I do remember when my son, who is now 25, was growing up, I had great concern for many of these games that he'd bring home, and we would throw onto the bonfire. Now I would like to move on to a project Monarch and Marionette Programming, because I notice while reading the material from "El Centro" that certainly these projects, these themes are woven all throughout it and it's certainly central to this world.
Joseph:	Well, at least, the outer chapters. I mean, again, you're judging the book by its cover. But yes, I will say that we did it in the outer chapters and in the set up, which is basically the two authors being interviewed, which, down the line, what you find out is those two authors are actually handlers. And we do make some comments about, you know, triggering the Omega layer and people's heads are going to explode. I thought by saying it that way that people would get that we were joking. Because, as far as I know, the omega response has to do with people committing suicide when they're triggered. So, I kind of went over the top, and made scanners and said, "You know well we triggered them, heads are going to be exploding all over the place." And by going way over the top I figured if anybody was stupid enough to be reading anything into the story other than entertainment then they would get it at that point. But apparently some people didn't. [laughs]
Milford:	It could also be taken as a metaphor for being driven so psychotically insane that they never recover. And cannot tell other stories...
Joseph:	Well if you want to look at it that way, but that's not how I was intending it. But if you want to look at it that way... But, I mean listen, listen. Let's get down to the bare tacks here, which is my opinion on the Monarch and Marionette mythos, is that the reality. Having right after or right around the time I was pushing "Ong's Hat" very heavily, and for some reason a lot of people attached themselves to that mythos, that seem to think that there was something in this story that was talking about mind control. And in fact, what the story - one element in the story in "Ong's Hat" - was talking about was about training yourself to be able to get into a meditative state so that you could do dimensional travel, but not this victimization mind control crap that I hear these days...
Milford:	See, it...
Joseph:	But, but...
Milford:	Eh?
Joseph:	No, just listen. So I came into contact with some people who I'm not going to name, but if I did name the names, you would know the names. They're very prominent names from the mind control conspiracy community.
Milford:	Mm-hmm.
Joseph:	And I observed these people basically convincing people, who obviously had psychological problems of one sort or another - convincing them that their problems were caused by Monarch and Marionette mind control implantation and all this overlay stuff and everything they talk about. Inevitably what followed that was that they were the deprogrammers that could help them. Right? This to me looked and smelled, and eventually I figured out it was cult behavior, cult induction behavior. Nothing less than that is what it was. Right? These people were basically... What they were doing is they were doing the same thing that a cult does, which is to convince you that you are helpless, that you have problems and that your problems can only be solved by the cult or the cult leader. Right? I don't see any difference in what's going on between the Monarch programming thing that goes on right now and that kind of behavior. I would call it a cult. I would call those people...
Milford:	So...
Joseph:	... cults.
Milford:	So, anyone who claims to be a survivor of government mind control, brain-washing experiments, the Montauk Project, etc.?
Joseph:	Yeah, I would have to say any of those people... Yeah, a lot of those things are... I mean, I don't know about the... I mean the Montauk Project is probably a little bit different. In fact, in that, in the interest of full disclosure - yes, Sky Books, the Montauk Project people, did publish "Ong's Hat." But my opinion is that there are a lot of people that are interested in the Montauk Project stuff that just find it entertaining. There are other people that obviously find it all to be real. I've yet to see anybody from the Montauk Project trying to form a cult. So, I'll give them that.
Milford:	Hmm.
Joseph:	So that's what I can say. But, there are other people -- quite frankly, I've been in situations where some of these deprogrammers go through the session with somebody and then later are sitting in a private scenario, where I happened to be in a couple of cases, were mocking and making fun of the people they were supposed to be deprogramming. But they don't believe it anymore than I do. Right? So, you have to be careful when you talk about this kind of stuff. Even with what I just said, I'm probably in trouble now because these people, when they hear this they know who I'm talking about. They know what I'm talking about. And so, they go on these rampant smear campaigns because they're afraid that I'm going to out them, when in fact I could give a shit. Its like, just go do what you're going to do. I just don't want any part of it. Stay the fuck away from me. That's how I feel about it these days.
Milford:	So this...
Joseph:	These people are no better than scientology.
Milford:	Scientology?
Joseph:	And that's not saying much. [laughs]
Milford:	[laughs] Would you like to make any further statements about scientology? I've found some pretty interesting things where it keeps cropping up again.
Joseph:	Yeah, well you know this Theresa Duncan thing that's going around these days. What I find interesting about that is that there's been a smokescreen that's been thrown over that whole incident, which those two people that committed suicide, Theresa Duncan and Jeremy Blake. It was very tragic. Nobody really knows what the reason is, but I do know that before they both killed themselves, they did claim that they were being harassed by scientology. That doesn't mean it's true, but it doesn't mean that it's not, because it's hard for me to scoff at scientology harassment, having experienced it firsthand. That's all I'm going to say. I'm not going to go into...
Milford:	..
Joseph:	No, no, no. I'm not going to go into it because...
Milford:	Oh? Yes?
Joseph:	These guys have a policy called fair game. They practice something called suit besiding and scapegoating and they are the masters of smear tactics. And these people can and will screw with people very heavily and they're the masters at making it look like they're not. So, I'm not saying that Theresa and Jeremy were being harassed by scientology. I'm saying they could've been. And because everybody goes, "Oh, well they're just crazy." I've seen it before firsthand where some of these groups are really good at doing it. So, if you want to know more, read stuff like, "L. Ron Hubbard: Messiah or Madman." Go to "Operation Clambake" on the web. Read "Bare-Face Messiah" or "A Piece of Blue Sky" or any of those books and figure it out for yourself. And we have to stop talking about this now because I really don't want to be harassed by these people anymore than I already have been and that I'm already going to be when I do the movie "Ron and Jack." I'm probably going to have them up my ass again, so I just really... Let's just drop it, OK?
Milford:	OK, and many of my listeners are familiar with the early years because I've gone over some of that in other programs. So, now let's move onto another connection then. You've already brought up Art Bell. He is someone who's very much a trailblazer. That program really led to a lot of my own interest in these subject matters. Although I'm seeing much more mainstream stuff covered, or it's certainly a different tone these days. But there seems to be some sort of link to Heaven's Gate. I do know who did the show...
Joseph:	Let me just...Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I know where you're going with this. You're asking me why I did Art Bell, and I did...
Milford:	Well...
Joseph:	... make some comments back then and I don't think they're online anymore. That basically, that was my way of proving a theory or proving something that I had said and a lot of people had dismissed, which is that it's not too hard to get on the Art Bell show if you're completely full of beans...
Milford:	So, you were just proving... You're basically taking or having a piss on them, so to speak.
Joseph:	Yeah, actually I was, because you know what? I was a little disturbed that not more people were pointing out the connection between... Or the responsibility for the Heaven's Gate disaster and the Art Bell show. Because I mean the Art Bell show was basically responsible for the whole idea that Hale-Bopp was a spaceship, or would be followed by a spaceship or something like that. Don't get me wrong; I'm not saying Art Bell is responsible for that. I'm just saying nobody was talking about it because everybody was like, "Oh it's the Art Bell show. Worship, worship. [sarcasm]." You know? [laughs] And I'm like well, you know let's talk about this. It's pretty easy to get something on that show and a lot of people said, "Well, no it's not. Oh No. They filter this stuff, and they're blah, blah, blah." And I'm like, OK, let me show you. So, it was that easy really. That's what it was about. And that's all I really have to say about that. So, exhibit C is about... Again, any of the stuff that we've been talking about in the ARG connection, exhibit C will really just kind of hammer home. This is really what it's about. Let's not get into all this craziness, and this stuff about government mind control and, for God's sake, I mean yes MKL sort of occurred. There's some weird stuff that happened in Canada and there are probably a few things going on now. I'm more, actually I'm less concerned about a Delgado experiment going on in American culture than I am with Rendition. You know? There's some heavy stuff going on right now, people. And we need to be paying attention and not getting sidetracked with all these diversions like these crazy crackpot stories.
Milford:	Rendition?
Joseph:	Yeah, look it up. [laughs]
Milford:	That I shall. That may be a future program. Now you keep bringing up these exhibits as if we were in a court of law.
Joseph:	Yeah, yeah well we'll get to it later. Trust me. We'll get to it later.
Milford:	I will trust you on this. OK. You had a website up announcing a project called "The Egg." I found out that you have canceled the project?
Joseph:	Yeah, I did. I just didn't want people from the ARG community to get confused by thinking it was an ARG because there was some accusations out there that it was. So you know since it was just a side project, it didn't mean that much to me honestly. I shut it off.
Milford:	Interesting.
Joseph:	In a way I guess it's a form of censorship. So, hail to the Crypto-Fascists, I mean the Crypto-Christians. They win.
Milford:	[laughs] Mm-hmm. Excuse me.
Joseph:	Yeah. You sound like a smoker but I know you're not. [laughs]
Milford:	Indeed, I am a clean living gentleman. It's just that the rising damp this time of year.
Joseph:	Ah. OK.
Milford:	I've seen this name Ben Mack propping up all over the place. What...
Joseph:	Yeah, listen, one of the things that we did with "El Centro" is we launched a couple other books besides "El Centro, " like real print books that were done at the time. I'm actually in the process of rewriting "El Centro" as a novel. And one of the reasons that I'm having to rewrite it is because... You probably, as you were reading it, you saw things like when you explain the Ink Spot song coming from the tinny speaker overhead, it doesn't say what the song is but there is a link in the hypertext takes you to the fact that it's the song "If I Didn't Care, " but so I have to rewire this into a non-hypertext mode. Or the $20 bill that Gil puts down on the table, there's a link to an RFID article, so you know that he's carrying a $20 bill that has an RFID chip in it. But, you don't know that in the print version unless I tell you so I'm going through and rewriting all of it. It'll probably be out sometime in '08.
Milford:	So, you are not altering the meaning or trying to hide something...
Joseph:	No, I'm expanding it. I'm expanding it. I'm actually making it readable as a book because it's not hypertext. So, anyway we launched a couple of books out of the library section at El Centro. It was really just they didn't have much to do with the story. It was just kind of a favor I was doing for some people who are friends. I launched "Poker without Cards" out of El Centro. I also launched the "Black Book, Galt's Ark I and II." That was done with Christopher Hyatt and some other people. I think...
Milford:	Yes, I've certainly heard plenty of rumors surrounding that.
Joseph:	[laughs]
Milford:	And also you are looking to turn the nation into a bunch of psychopaths. Is that it?
Joseph:	Oh, "Psychopath's Bible" yeah.
Milford:	Yes indeed. It's certainly incendiary...
Joseph:	Well, I wrote a jacket for it. [laughs] And one of my jacket blurbs said, "Believe everything in this book. Wait, believe nothing in this book." So you know that's my statement on that...
Milford:	May I quote the term millephadeon.
Joseph:	Now if you just want to... [laughs]
Milford:	As far as the contradictory statement, I'm finally saying stuff like this a lot.
Joseph:	Well anyway, Ben Mack, "Poker without Cards." We launched the book out of there. I wrote a foreword for that book. I did some content editing, not grammatical or spelling but rather structure and some suggestions for editions and I actually wrote, I think, an Afterword as well if I remember correctly. We were going to do an ARG around that book, but we canceled the ARG, because Ben decided that he wanted to go a different direction with how he marketed the book and the people who were going to be involved with the ARG didn't entirely agree with the combative nature of the marketing plan. [laughs]
Milford:	Indeed.
Joseph:	If you noticed, Ben does this thing where he goes onto forums and gets into fights and does all this weird stuff. So, you know. And that's - I'm not knocking. I'm just saying. You know we didn't want to go down that path with him so we gave him our blessing and away he went.
Milford:	It's doing a certain part of that job that is precisely how I first came across that name.
Joseph:	Yeah, exactly. So, you know exhibit D you can see an example of, Ben just kind of flies solo these days and he's working with other people and every once in a while he'll do something and drag one of our names into it. We have to come out and put a disclaimer out because we're like we're not working with this guy. Just really... Just go talk to him about whatever he's doing. But you know, that's... Yeah, I know the exhibits, you don't get it. But we're going to get there because...
Milford:	So, this Mr. Mack is really.
Joseph:	No, we're there. Let's talk about it. Let's talk about it.
Milford:	OK.
Joseph:	When I podcast this radio show on the Gray Lodge and the G-Spot, on Alterati and they put it up on ElCentro.net...
Milford:	Mm-hmm.
Joseph:	And other places, that's why I'm calling these exhibits. I'll include some of the exhibits on a web page that go along with this audio. So, I'm basically going to the same thing with this that I did for the one with Roal Saff. [laughs]
Milford:	Well, thank you for the warning, sir. Now we have chosen not to stream over the Internet or we have just some very basic info and little notes and stuff up on our site: GardenofTruth.org, but we have not chosen to use, really have too much up on servers that can be traced and messed with, but obviously you're going to go ahead and...
Joseph:	Well, they won't be on your servers. Look at it that way. It won't cost you anything in bandwidth. I mean I'm just trying to help you out. I'm exposing your message to more people than you would be because I record it off of the shortwave broadcast and you know, there are more people on the Internet than on shortwave these days. You know for doing...
Milford:	That is most unfortunate.
Joseph:	[laughs] For you I now. I mean listen...
Milford:	Indeed. I remember the days as a boy with a ham radio and it was just such a... It was a different experience. This is a very different world than I knew growing up.
Joseph:	Well I know, you're older than me and I grew up with a ham radio in my bedroom because I loved gear and electronics and you know I was a bit of a gear-head and a motor-head, but also an electronics-head. But, that's neither here nor there. It's just that I feel like...I know that you're not too fond of me and I know that you feel like maybe I come from the left-hand path and you come from the right-hand path. And it's true that I do have a lot of left-hand path friends but I also have a lot of right-hand path friends. I, believe it or not, have friends who are Christians.
Milford:	You do?
Joseph:	And I do. And I have friends who are Satanists. I can coexist in the same room with these people. I don't have to only exist with people who agree with me. I'm personally agnostic, so I can sit in the middle of these two people. And everything's fine as long as they don't try to cram religion down my throat. And that goes for either side. It's OK. I actually like you. I know you would find that probably amazing that I would say that but...
Milford:	Indeed, well you haven't been openly insulting or anything. I think we may come closer to understanding each other, though I don't see us ever on the same side of anything.
Joseph:	Well, yeah, I would agree with that because I'm not on a side of anything so that's why... But, I admire people who can be passionate as long as they also know how to do it without going overboard and without completely painting themselves into a corner so that they can't communicate with other human beings. So it's really like that simple and really I guess the only thing I have left to say is that El Centro was really my fuck-off and farewell to the conspiracy community, that's how it was intended. The way the whole thing -- to give it away a little bit, I'm not going to give away too much, cause this thing is a book. I do want to try and get this out there, and have a little element of surprise to it. But at the end day the chapters that you can't get to now, really did show that the main character "Gil, " who I think you read one of the chapters about him...
Milford:	Yes, indeed.
Joseph:	... ends up discovering that he's not really mind-controlled. He's been led to believe that he's being programmed in mind-control, by some rather nefarious newage characters -- notice I said, "newage."
Milford:	Newage.
Joseph:	Like sewage. Who really are just out to do what I was talking about earlier with the whole monarch, and mind-control, and reptilian, alien bullshit that goes on out there -- and really just trying to find people who are in a bad way or in a weak point in their life, or who are suffering from some sort of organic or mental distress of the brain, and take advantage of those people. Luckily our hero, Gil Gomesh -- yes, like Gilgamesh...
Milford:	[laughs]
Joseph:	... discovers at the end what's going on, is able to pull his shit together and rise above, and actually exacts a little revenge on these people.
Milford:	So, a happy ending.
Joseph:	Yeah, that's it. It actually is a story with a happy ending, believe it or not. It just uses a lot of the devices and elements of a very kind of creepy subculture out there on the Internet. Unfortunately, whenever you talk about that kind of stuff a lot of those people get triggered in the sense that -- not triggered like their mind-control has been triggered, but...
Milford:	But, you'll make a response.
Joseph:	No, no, no -- that they're paranoia response gets triggered. Because quite frankly if you go study psychology, what you discover is that in order to be a paranoid schizophrenic there's a necessary precursor condition which is called, "Primary Narcissism." Which if you think about it, it makes sense. Which is, in order to actually be so paranoid that you believe that they are out to get you, you have to first believe that you're important enough for them to be out to get you. Does that make sense?
Milford:	I can see that, yes.
Joseph:	It's a form of narcissism. If you observe the behavior of these individuals, especially on wine -- you can really see it. Once you're hip to that factor, you can really, really, really see that there's a lot of full-blown paranoia, but a lot of full-blown narcissistic behavior going on with a lot of those people. So, I'm not saying that there hasn't been things the government has done in the past that's been very, very wicked.
Milford:	Sure.
Joseph:	I'm not saying that there aren't things that are going on now that aren't very, very wicked. Again, go look up the concept of rendition, and what's going on with that.
Milford:	I shall do that.
Joseph:	Some of the things that are going on in Iraq, some of the things that are going on in other Third World Countries in the name of democracy, and with the blessings, and even the force and might of the American Military. Guys, people, women, children -- all of you out there, there's a lot of stuff going on. Well for example, I'm going to do another G-Spot soon. It's probably coming up in about a month with a friend of mine from National Geographic who's doing a documentary on human trafficking. She's discovered some very disturbing things that are going on in the United States. So I'm going to go talk to her about the people she's seen, and some of the things she's filmed. I think the movie will be coming out next year. But I'm going to get it on tape, and talk to her. National Geographic has said they're OK with me doing that, and I'll probably put it out on the G-Spot as a podcast. We try to be lighthearted over at the G-Spot. But every once in awhile I think it's OK to like back-up a little bit and cover a serious subject, and that's what I'm going to do.
Milford:	That certainly is about as serious as you can get. It certainly is disturbing. One thing I've noticed, in my work I have to actually look at a lot of cults oriented material, communities, and so forth. I'm noticing a lot of this stuff. A lot of these conspiracies we hear about, and a lot of these stories, and even just viewpoints -- seems to make the continental United States the entire world. So I wonder where other nations, other people, are in all of this?
Joseph:	That's a good question, that's a good question.
Milford:	Is that a figure of your imagination?
Joseph:	Well, the only thing I have to say to any of that -- no further then, and then I'm just going to conclude this interview is that... I've gotten all serious now, so I'm like, "Oh, God! All the fun is getting sucked out of the room."
Milford:	[laughs]
Joseph:	But it's like seriously, there are some real things out there. Like we talked about some of the mind-control cults that prey on weak people, we talked about human trafficking, there's some serious stuff going on in the world. I think that more people need to think about how they can work with other people, and how they can form alliances to combat some of these sort of things, rather than coming out and swinging and screaming, and hurling crazy accusations at the wind. Because we're at a point in history as a civilization and as a race, the human race, where we are literally reaching a tipping point, where we need to start paying attention and doing some things. That's why you don't see me running around doing things like Ong's Hat and El Centro anymore. Because I'm more interested in spending some time and money on the side in helping promote arts and literature, and things that actually raise awareness and consciousness of some of these issues. So with that, now that I have sucked all the fun out of the room...
Milford:	Very good.
Joseph:	... I will bid you adieu my friend. I doubt that we'll talk again, but you know it's been fun. I will be listening. I'll be listening to the short-wave.
Milford:	Well, thank you very much.
Joseph:	So, you'll have at least one listener out there. [laughs]
Milford:	Alright, then. Well I thank you very much for coming on the show. I think we have left this at, at least one point of agreement, we are certainly at a crucial point in our history. I think, it really is up to each one of us to make sure it's not the end-point. Let's hope we can make everything around us right now, and take our lives and decisions and make it a beginning. That is it for this night's edition of the "Garden of Truth" program. Thank you all very much for listening. May God Bless. [music]
Announcer:	You have been listening to the "El Centro" audio book. Narrated by E. Emerson Williams, written and produced by Joseph Matheny. Theme and all other music composed and performed by Veil of Thorns. This audio book is distributed with the Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 Unported License. You are free to share, copy, distribute, and transmit the work under the following conditions: Attribution - you must attribute the work in the manner specified by the author or licensor. But not in any way that suggests that they endorse you or your use of the work. On Commercial - You may not use this work for commercial purposes. No Derivative Works - You may not alter, transform, or build upon this work. For any Reuse or any Distribution - You must make clear to others the license terms of this work. The best way to do this is with a link to this web page. Any of the above conditions can be waived if you get permission form the copyright holder. Nothing in this license impairs or restricts the author's moral rights. [music]

This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 Unported License.

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